In Strong and Vine’s the power is the “Power of the Holy Spirit” (at 162), which is the Spirit of God (Romans 9:8-11 RSV), and Jehovah (or Lord RSV) is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17 NWT). The Holy Spirit is not simply an inert unthinking electrical current flowing from Jehovah God. It is a powerful spirit Person.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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50
OT God YHWH versus Jesus' Father
by Mad Sweeney ini'm starting to think they're not the same being.
thoughts?.
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So Everything Was Going Good Until...
by tryingtoexit ini drew a blank on a particular question.
i basically had a talk with my parents over the weekend.
they've been jw's since the 50's and pops been an elder since 83. so i knew it was gonna be hard, but i basically told them to their face that i am no longer going to be a jw and gave a few reasons why.
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jonathan dough
We discussed that, then my pops interrupts and says "well if the Great Crowd is in heaven like you've just shown us, then who will live on earth?" I dont know why but I straight blanked out, didnt have an answer so I had to do the typical Witness response I'll get back to you on that. I cant believe I never took the time to really examine that. Like now I believe the Great Crowd and the 144,000 are all in heaven, but after Armageddon who resides on earth, will there always be people on earth like Proverbs/Pslams mentions or am I asking the wrong question. Somebody enlighten me based on their understanding of the Bible, or point me in the right direction.
Earth will still be inhabited, but not according to the scenario the JWs picture, and not according to their time frame. Those who inhabit the earth won't do so as flesh and blood, like we are today. In time the heavenly Jerusalem comes down.
Granted, the Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe the earth will be destroyed and base this teaching in large part on Psalm 37:29 where the psalmist wrote that "The just will possess the land (earth) and live in it forever." However, the earth "wears out like a garment (Isa. 51:6), so the word "forever" is hyperbole, and nothing here indicates that there won't be a hiatus, or break, in the earth's habitation. Psalm 37:29 does not say man will inherit the earth continuously without interruptionn, and Revelation 21:10 suggests that reconstituted, glorified man, without the warts, will come back down out of heaven sometime in the future.
Actually, the earth has experienced significant disruptions evidenced by the meteoric annihilation of the dinosaurs and great flood of Noah's time. Remember, we are dealing with geologic time, and cycling through another ice age that would wipe off the post-apocalyptic mess left in the wake of Armageddon is entirely within reason. It is more reasonable than handing the Great Crowd brooms and haz-mat suits and telling them to turn the earth back into a paradise. Not my idea of a good time.
More to the point is Peter's comparison of the earth's pending fiery destruction to the great flood which is a real, not metaphorical, example of earth's fate (2 Pet. 3:5-13). Jesus likewise made it known that ultimate destruction will be modeled after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. That man's governments are changed in the process goes without saying. Remember, "...he was seated on the throne and said, "Behold, I am making all things new. (Rev. 21:5).It's impossible for the 144,000 anointed JWs to reign over man on earth. The answers you seek are in these pages. And just for the sake of argument man in not meant to inhabit the earth, it really wouldn't matter because the benefits of paradise, whatever that is, would eclipse our earthly existence. He would take care of us and whatever is in store, it would be better, much better.
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50
OT God YHWH versus Jesus' Father
by Mad Sweeney ini'm starting to think they're not the same being.
thoughts?.
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jonathan dough
I believe there are two real divine Beings who make up God - the Creator and the Father.
What verses back this up? Or did you come by this through revelation? Can you explain who the Creator and Father are? You seem to be claiming that God the Father did not create the universe. I'm listening.
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Question regarding Holy Spirit...
by tenyearsafter ini am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".
if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?
grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".
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Was the Apostle Paul the Rutherford of his day?
by nugget ini was doing reseaerch on early days of the society and remembered a radio programme about the apostle paul from earlier in the year.
the gist of the programme was that paul had remodeled the early christians in his image and that many of the restrictions and edicts from that time had little to do with jesus earlier teaching.
for example the vilification of homosexuals and the denegration of women.. this made me think about how rutherford changed the early bible students and added restrictions to them as well trying to remodel the organisation into something he could control.. jesus spent time teaching about the kingdom, preaching the need for love, forgiveness and acceptance.
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jonathan dough
Not very different from the rest of the Fundamentalist Christians who may have different interpretations of scripture,
Frankie, you always speak in vague generalities. Ever notice that?
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PDF of that Kingdom Ministry insert please
by Leprechaun ini would sure like to have a pdf of that kingdom ministry insert back in i think the september 2007 that said: it would not be proper for brothers and sister to meet together in small groups to study the bible.
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i have many family and witness friends who just wont believe me when i tell them that there was such information given out in the form of a command.
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jonathan dough
All Christians should strive to “shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile.”—Titus 3:9.
First, they aren't studying geneologies. Second, independant Bible studies are not "fights over the (Mosaic) Law." Third, whether the questions are foolish begs the question of what is or is not foolish. And fourth, in Paul's time the people studied scripture daily to verify what Paul was saying was true, and fifth, the Bible cautions to test all things.
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PDF of that Kingdom Ministry insert please
by Leprechaun ini would sure like to have a pdf of that kingdom ministry insert back in i think the september 2007 that said: it would not be proper for brothers and sister to meet together in small groups to study the bible.
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i have many family and witness friends who just wont believe me when i tell them that there was such information given out in the form of a command.
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jonathan dough
from the wt library CD, kingdom ministry 9/07:
Question
Box
? Does“thefaithfulanddiscreetslave”endorseindependentgroupsofWitnesseswhomeettogethertoengageinScripturalresearchordebate?—Matt.24:45, 47.
No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the NewWorldTranslation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature.
Thanks for that. Mind-boggling. Shamefull. Only demonic forces would say this. You faders and lurkers need to pay close attention to this.
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jonathan dough
So you were only referring to a hypothetical bad 'life' after death given that your interpretation of the supposed holy book of a hypothetical god is correct, phew I thought I might really be in trouble there!
Meanwhile I will get on with my great life.
Can't rule out that something bad might happen to you in this life as well. You never know.
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Question regarding Holy Spirit...
by tenyearsafter ini am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".
if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?
grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".
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jonathan dough
I appreciate what you are saying, but I don't know that we have any conclusive proof that the 1st century believers accepted the Trinity as we know it today. I suspect that they might have thought of Jesus as God, but I don't know that they connected the Holy Spirit to a Godhead. I am no scholar, but maybe you have additional references that show that.
ME: So what? Understanding evolves. And there is conclusive proof that they worshipped in a Trinitarian pattern. The Jewish Christians, the pillars, had much wrong and it also evolved. Read these links:
17) The Trinity in the Bible: Elemental Trinitarianism is evident throughout the Bible.
18) The Trinity in the Old Testament.
19) The Trinity in the New Testament.
a) Matthew 28:19 ----------------------------------------------------------b) 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 -----------------------------------------------
c) 2 Corinthians 13:13 (14) -----------------------------------------------
d) Romans 8:9-11 -------------------------------------------------------------
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What products should I consider to ward off Deers?
by asilentone ini have seen several cars hit by deers around here, but i have never been hit by a deer here, i might consider to buy something to ward off deers.
any suggestions would be very much appreciated..
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jonathan dough
.45 magnum